View Full Version : Does anyone know game theory?
I have been trying to learn this in my own spare time and see if in fact you could apply it to ut. This may be a foolish endeavor as there are many variables in ut and not all actions are mutually exclusive. Indeed, the game is very dynamic.
Perhaps someone out there could offer some more suggestions (other than 'go **** yourself'), they would be welcome.
What I have thought of thus far is mostly common sense, but perhaps this endeavor will yield some good strategies to certain situations.
For instance:
Taking tdm as an example.
The stronger side of the conflict should seek to quickly dispatch of the enemy using long range tactics as well as sheer numbers to do so. Any diversions should be avoided.
The weaker side should seek to create one on one situations close up and effectively split up the stronger group. Diversions can accomplish this.
{this is paraphrased from the text I read on military strategies}
Tdm is usually balanced(as far as numbers go) in competition. So the clear dividing factor is aim.
If your team is better at aim, then 5 of you with shock rifles/Lightning/Gay guns should quickly dispatch the other team (provided you work together). One can just imagine a group trying to escape those combos/Head shots/gay bullets and not being able to do it.
So If your team is lacking in the aim department. Your best strategy is to use rocket/flak to get the other team into one on one situations where you will have a better chance to kill them. (taking into account that rocket and flak have splash damage your aim needn`t be exceptionally good) So then being subversive, (staying in cover until close proximity and not staying as a group but being co-ordinated) is a key tactic here.
This makes logical sense in the given situation (Team A can shoot the pants off of Team B) because in employing this strategy Team B has a fighting chance if they accomplish their goal (as they are weaker). And Team A can quickly dispatch of Team B if they accomplish their goal.
Whilst in a tdm it is alot more dynamic than this as resource competition is a major factor as well as the fact that Team B can employ long range weaponry at times. This is merely a guide.
Any other ideas are welcome.
One of the main functions in winning any TDM game is map control , and by this i mean "powerup" contol. IE: shields and DD.
Yup.
Resource competition.
And with the new rules of weapon stay off, it will certainly make things interesting...
One of the main functions in winning any TDM game is map control , and by this i mean "powerup" contol. IE: shields and DD.
and weapons.
Also - if your team is big enough - split the team up and assign roles to them - for example have one Team hog the shield(s)/dd and the other team hog important weapons like Flak/Rocket/LG/Shock. Also - keep one person as Team Leader for each divison of the seperated team. That's just one theory I have - not perfect - but it makes a difference when someone who can aim with a enforcer verses someone who can't aim with a rocket launcher.
The interesting thing about coming up with Game Theories though / or learning existing ones - is to work out the stratedgy to take it out - thus giving you the power to defend yourself by the expected attacks you may recieve.
[3]Hellfire
05 Jul 2005, 18:51
Yip it actually looks like a strategy guide ....
Not bad I suppose , but employing those strategies will probably always get the weaker team to lose.... my 2c anyway ...
thats not "Game Theory"
Well strictly speaking no it is not game theory. It is actually a loose paraphrase of lanchester theory. I`m aware that game theory involves mathematics and I`m currently trying to learn it.
Hence the reason for this post. I never once stated that I in fact knew game theory, I was asking if someone here did and more importantly if it was applicable to unreal tournament.
oi patato oops plato bring your ass so i can show you want flak can realy do when you shoot it just right {as in air shot's}........ the rl you know what i can do with that on your ass....:)
but come let me show you the hard way plz plz plz plz plz plz! the way I was showed by TA.
remember this:
There are a lot of books & dvds on how to play better golf. However there is no substitute for experience. Its the same for almost any dicipline u can think of.
Sure - having the theory is nice - but when u have very little time to think - it boils down to almost reflex/instict action.
Like gizzlo said - if u have been bitch slapped enough - u eventually "learn" not to make the same mistakes.
<A>BioGizzard
06 Jul 2005, 07:59
G'z Pig sounds like u talkin about Arena..
I was quite silly in my expectation in that I thought that some mathematics wizz just happened to play Ut here and that Ut could be reduced to a finite number of variables and that you just need solve a matrix involving those variables and you would then have an optimal strategy with which you could take on any opposition. (as well as that matrix containing all opponents` strategies as well)
Ooooops! :p
Anyway.
Thank you all for the input.
It was honestly, most welcome.
:D
ps Gizz, I have a full load of goo waiting to digest you as a learning organism :bounce:
.... I just dont feel like digging my opperations research text book out of the rubble that is my room from exam studying...
I just get lucky mostly :D
Cataphract
06 Jul 2005, 10:03
I have incredible luck, pity it's all bad. FFS#$$#$%
Plato, PM Lord_Xan - there's a mathematical giant for you.
I have incredible luck, pity it's all bad. FFS#$$#$%
Plato, PM Lord_Xan - there's a mathematical giant for you.
Cool, thanks man :D
remember this:
There are a lot of books & dvds on how to play better golf. However there is no substitute for experience. Its the same for almost any dicipline u can think of.
Sure - having the theory is nice - but when u have very little time to think - it boils down to almost reflex/instict action.
Like gizzlo said - if u have been bitch slapped enough - u eventually "learn" not to make the same mistakes.
I wonder if there are any UT coaches available :)
Sometimes you just keep doing the same things -- a coach may be able help you break a bad habits and create a good ones etc.
I think peers are the best asset as far showing you your bad habits.....
Also, as has already been stipulated, If some guy is owning you... stop and think why?
In a duel I`ve learned to at least get a few kills in with link and bio(and not always rely on lg to save me :p), sometimes that`s all the dude leaves you :D
<A>BioGizzard
06 Jul 2005, 14:39
in my case i only get what i spawned with
Cataphract
06 Jul 2005, 15:00
in my case i only get what i spawned with
At least in arena you spawn with an arsenal of note :D
In DM I sometimes even get hit while I'm still in the spawn protection time - flinging me (unscathed) accross the map like a frisbee. :D
I wonder if there are any UT coaches available :)
Sometimes you just keep doing the same things -- a coach may be able help you break a bad habits and create a good ones etc.
Thats a great Idea BEAN. I wonder who we can nominate ? Im guessing we'll need about 4-6 contenders to be voted in as coaches ( If they're willing )
I nominate NAUT - MUDDA - MBURR - TARGET - PETERPAN - LORD ZAN.
Post nominations here, the top 10 will get polled to see who the top five willing coaches can be. ( If willing )
Lord_Xan
06 Jul 2005, 15:43
Plato, PM Lord_Xan - there's a mathematical giant for you.
Thanks for the compliment, but I probably fall quite a bit short. I do have a healthy interest in mathematics and statistics though. I'm sure there are a few others around as well, Plato. :)
On the subject of game theory: I don't think you'll get much use out of it for UT2k4. My memory is a bit rusty, but I seem to recall game theory being more useful for games of chance (and games where there are bets involved). Even though UT2k4 does have these elements, placing numerical values on them will be quite difficult. And without meaningful values the theory becomes useless.
Plus, as you said, UT2k4 represents a very dynamic system. The overall rules may be clearcut (you shoot someone and hit - they lose health) but the detail is highly variable (someone with an assault rifle can kill someone with a rocket launcher, for example). Under these circumstances, setting up rules for the system will be a nightmare.
Better stick to roulette or something. ;)
Thank you most graciously :D
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