View Full Version : CLAN Tournament - how good is your CLAN really!
Great - nice to see what the CLAN names are.
But now - how many of you Clans would be interested in an online tournament? GM will gladly run the tournament - Perhaps to make it fair, we can use one of the sGs servers? If anyone can assist with that please pm me asap? GM will include prizes - if the Clan's are willing to pay an entry fees - what do you all say and how much would you be willing to pay? Remember the more you pay - the better prizes are that we will supply.
Each Clan must consist of 5 Players on entry.
The tournament will run on a "double elimination" system, with four Tiers which will be posted as a schedule on our website for download/viewing.
Tier 1 - TDM
Tier 2 - CTF
Tier 3 - BR
Tier 4 - The Clans in the finals agree on the Game Type
We'll most likely schedule it for a saturday with predetermined times, and will run until the Tournament is complete.
What does everyone say - Time to show who's da best?
Terms and conditions will apply - and will be posted on www.gamemasters.co.za (http://www.gamemasters.co.za) - nb - they are not posted yet - until I have finalized the tournament setup.
<A>Fragaholic
07 Jun 2005, 16:48
*yawn*
Now now, blatant discrimination;), I demand ONS as a game type....
Put ONS in and ~MA~ will be there. For the rest, yeah it looks goooooood
PS. Before anyone blows a gasket, its all in jest.
Cataphract
07 Jun 2005, 16:54
If you put ONS in, Helix will also be there ;)
We'll be there regardless- just as long as we can have a blast its cool!!! !!! !! !! !!!
Sure - how about we replace BR with ONS?
This just a fun tournament - or does everyone want prizes?
prizes arent serious to me- but this comp sure would be good !
Ok - we'll just setup a Fun tournament then - no prizes no entry fee - GM will host a hall of fame on our website - and as we do more of these we'll keep updating the HOF
the HOFF?
hasslehoff?
rotfl
<A>BioGizzard
07 Jun 2005, 19:54
Now now, blatant discrimination;), I demand ONS as a game type....I AGREE!!!this is pure Racism Hax!!...BAN,BAN,BAN,BAN,BAN :P
[3]Hellfire
07 Jun 2005, 20:47
Well i think it is a very very good idea....
ONS? Is it that game where you drive in tanks cause you can't play UT? :P
I'm game. :)
IF we take the prizes away, then the Top clans wont play, or so I think,
Whatever the Choice DJ, ill support you till the end.
Just keep BR in the Setup. I think it has more skill to it than some of us think.
]H[ellboy
07 Jun 2005, 22:43
Cool and can we arrange that the server used for this compo has anti-cheat software installed please!
yeah, I believe every 1 that beats me must be cheating :P
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
08 Jun 2005, 02:41
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, it sounds great.!!!!
Don't know how many of our guys can play ons though..? :P
Just for interest sake whats the prizes going to be?? Hope you going to keep all the ppl's in the clan in mind.??
IF we take the prizes away, then the Top clans wont play Just keep BR in the Setup. I think it has more skill to it than some of us think.
Dont worry international clans rarely play on our servers.
But why drop BR? its teh PHUN!!!
Only problem is the last match which is a game type of your choosing, think we should have an agreed upon match before hand. Say one game type each in a best 2 out of three fasion.
Cataphract
08 Jun 2005, 08:27
ONS? Is it that game where you drive in tanks cause you can't play UT? :p
Damn, Gamos busted me. I knew I wouldn't get away with it for long.
Personally i think BR rocks
With the right teams it can be way more intense than ctf or ons
like a constant tug o war
Cataphract
08 Jun 2005, 09:19
Absolutely. We had some pretty hectic matches in BR-Canyon and that frozen one with the tunnel in the mountain - icefields or something like that.
There is a reason BR won't be in UT2007 and there is a reason DD will dissapear again - people hate it! Heck, even Assault will take a new form.
Add ONS, add CTF and even TDM, but I'm guessing BR won't go down well with most clans.
Just my opinion of course...
We win. Give us all your money again.
ONS? Is it that game where you drive in tanks cause you can't play UT? :P
I'm game. :)
Jip, thats the one. If you are still unsure, I'll bring a tank and quickly remind u. :cool:
a TANK?? where? BR is fun, the reason why its being dropped is that its not a competitive gametype and hardly any of the so called "pro's" play it.
cool cool - I am busy working out a Tier which will include BR - I will try have a schedule online today - so far - I understand that the following Clans will attend:
~MA~
nT
MF
]H{elix
Well - Manta - if you guys want prizes - GM was going to provide 5 X USB Memory Sticks 256MB to the winning Clan - but then entry fee would have to R75 - but then we need to be sure we have at least four entered Clans - If you everyone want this to be included I recommend a vote of all interested. YES/NO - If you guys want a better prize - start suggesting - and we'll work out the entry fee for it.
As for a server - our server does not yet have anti-cheat and is currently being upgraded - and I would recommend a server we all trust at the moment sGs? - who can help with perhaps setting up a sGs server with Anti-cheat - Terror - that server we played on - who admined it during our game. Does it have anti-cheat!
Hey my grammer was terrible :(
Guys, if I can make a friendly suggestion, drop all forms of entry fees and prizes. Scrye is right unfortunately - just ship the prizes to 42. :)
Make it a multi-clan, multi-gametype ladder, not unlike the current duel/ONS ladder. You can add Naja to that list of participant too. If I can't get enough players interested, I'll hire mercs to frag along. :)
This sounds great:cool:
2 problems,
1. I don't think guys will pay R 75 to get OWNED by us ~MA~ boys ..... HAAHAA HAHAH A
2. Pls give us the date atleast 2-3 weeks in advance, if its a saturday most guys are busy in the morning till about 12 -1.
kk later guys
I think CTF, BR, DD and Assault rox. Pity only CTF gets played.
Yeah T, they all good even Onslaught :P
Gamos got it spot in, make it a fun event. Prizes and entry fees will only complicate things.
I agree - lets drop the though of prizes - I think we'll be having this tournament sometime around the first 2 weeks of july
This sounds great:cool:
2 problems,
1. I don't think guys will pay R 75 to get OWNED by us ~MA~ boys ..... HAAHAA HAHAH A
2. Pls give us the date atleast 2-3 weeks in advance, if its a saturday most guys are busy in the morning till about 12 -1.
kk later guys
Nautilian
08 Jun 2005, 12:09
Suggestion:
Why not in each tier mix things up:
Tier 1: 1x ONS, 1x CTF, 1x TeamDM
Tier 2: 1x Assualt, 1x CTF, 1x ONS
Tier 3: 1x DD, 1x CTF, 1x BR
Naut
BeTraYeL
08 Jun 2005, 12:43
You can add the .cOms to :)
well, IF you want to add prizes. then f the prizes, let all the clans insert a certain amount of cash, then let the clan that wins take all hte cash?
Ummm, I won't/can't give a penny. I am not in this to compete, I am doing this as my hobby.
Unless you plan to make this an official online tourney, I think it is a bad idea.
For an online tournament, dealing with a bunch of anonymous people, adding money to the mix is simply not going to work. Not prize money, not entry fees. Nothing.
Cataphract
08 Jun 2005, 13:32
Ahoy Shrimp! Agreed. We don't want an Enron-scandal.
GunJitsu
08 Jun 2005, 13:46
You guys play games for fun? No one said anything about fun.
Guys - lets see it this way - GM is gonna set this up for fun every now and again - and we'll have a hall of fame for the results - we can discuss prizes for the future depending on the outcome of this one? I reckon - this should all be in the name of fun to start off with!
Nautilian (http://unreal.co.za/forums/member.php?u=9) vbmenu_register("postmenu_12241", true); - I should hopefully by tonight have something up on our site to display how we think it will work - how about we fine tune it after that? I'll post a message on here when we have it up! I would like the best experience and fun out of this - so we can all decided how to manipulate the tiers then to bring fair play to everyone.
BeTraYeL
08 Jun 2005, 15:22
Agree with you. Play for fun if playing for money false accusations will soon arise
well I didnt say we should play for money, i said IF we play for money, we can mibbe do that :)...
Mutha Fragass!! A USB Memory Stick 256MB for only R75, How cheap is that, COme on, put in the prices! Ill play 75$ for that stick any day :P And its gonna be my stick!!!
Cataphract
08 Jun 2005, 17:50
We win. Give us all your money again.
Scrye if team 42 actually plays for it, it's not subject to donations tax! :D
Lol Manta - well - we get cost prices for hardware - that's why I thought it would be a good idea ;) I agree with Betrayal - "false accusations will soon arise" - lets see how the first round goes and take it from there!
However - no one is stopping any good old fashion betting hehe!
HaHa, i bet i will win, i start at 5c
Sure Manta - I raise your bid to 6c that you loose! And I'll pay out double if you win!
Are the Avatars joining in this Tournament?
Great guys - I've posted what we think the schedule will look like (Doesn't mean this is final) on our website at www.gamemasters.co.za (http://www.gamemasters.co.za) - under the news items.
Check it out - and let me know what you think.
Also - if you loose on the left side - via double elimination, you get a second chance on the right side - looking at the schedule will explain what I mean!
Very nice Dj. I love the news you put on the site, Well done and Good Job.
Great stuff! When do we start?
BTW - what is with the Naja question mark? [N]Nickname if you are wondering. :)
<A> Avatars are interested I'm sure.
Yeah wtf is TA?? this could be cool if it happens.
Well - now I need someone to volenteer to help with admining one of the sgs servers so we can make sure the correct Clans will play against each other as well as make sure there are anti-cheats on it - I still need to randomize all the scheduled tournaments and add in the Avatars.
Guys - if you know of any other Clans who want in, I need to know ASAP! Also I'd like to run the tournament either before or after my Barbados trip (going there on a business) which is during this month!
GunJitsu
09 Jun 2005, 09:32
As far as I know there isn't any good anti-cheat software available for ut2k4. As for an admin, between Cata,TP and Kwakung I'm sure it wont be a problem.
Awesome - I'm also sure we'll have loads a spectators - so that should help too
Can either Cata,TP or Kwakung PM me about sGs Server admin for this tourney please?
Team 42 - are you guys in this tourney too? Can I add you guys into the schedule?
Hey Manta - not sure if it was you who asked - but anyways - our UT Server should be back up and running now!
Team 42 - are you guys in this tourney too? Can I add you guys into the schedule?
lol - you must be new :)
I am new - so I don't know who's who in the zoo yet! Just the oaks I see online often!
lol - you must be new :)
DJ - beware there are a few trouble makers here, im sure you'll soon spot them. . . .
Your full of shit, Hey DJ notice that its always T3rrors post that draws out these "trouble makers"
T3rror did you go to the College of Zimbabwe by any chance???
<A>FluX.v2.0
09 Jun 2005, 16:59
LOL
College of Pam!@!
University of Nigeria (http://www.universityofnigeria.com/)
Your full of shit, Hey DJ notice that its always T3rrors post that draws out these "trouble makers"
T3rror did you go to the College of Zimbabwe by any chance???
Yes the trouble makers like me- im easy bait " to twist" (the words of flux)
I seem to draw them out very easily into the open, where i can then DESTROY THEM. MWUHAHA HAH HAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHHAHAH
*joke*
rotfl- sneaky you such a twit- check how you say "Hey DJ notice. . . "
its like your in school trying to rat me out for something and trying to "gang him up against me .......ROTFL- shame
Sneaky - I am not here to be political - I am friendly by nature - If T3rrors is drawing out trouble makers - then lets nail the trouble makers - T3rrors has caused no quarrel with me. So far - I think he's a good oak.
Your full of shit, Hey DJ notice that its always T3rrors post that draws out these "trouble makers"
T3rror did you go to the College of Zimbabwe by any chance???
u mean "ouk"
rotfl- im not a tree ...lool, anyways cya at the clannie DJ
<A>FluX.v2.0
09 Jun 2005, 19:11
Rofl
Not a real word anyway . .
<A>FluX.v2.0
09 Jun 2005, 19:42
but theres a real spelling for it...
DURRR
did you even go to school? or straight to pam?
it's a shortening of bloke...
MaXimus
09 Jun 2005, 20:34
Actually, it's "outjie". Wow, this thread made it to the third page before the flaming started, that must be a new record! You guys are becoming softies. Anyways, I'll PM Divexo who's currently our clan leader and see if he can get enough guys together.
BR rawks, those of u that say otherwise are just TDM noobs :P
some of our best clannies with Avatars were BR in ut2003. but DD can take a jump, i preffered the way it was done int ut99.
well theres an english and afrikaans word :P Outjie and Bloke
MaXimus
09 Jun 2005, 20:54
So when will this be starting? Looking forward to it.
Actually, it's "outjie". Wow, this thread made it to the third page before the flaming started, that must be a new record! You guys are becoming softies. Anyways, I'll PM Divexo who's currently our clan leader and see if he can get enough guys together.
Maximus ive got a team signed up for a small clannie against TA.
Just let me know what date and time and the booooi'z will be there.
This is the list sofar
) Terror
2) NeXuS
3) Crash
4) Mia ( reserve maby)
5) Wikid
6) JediKnight
MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
okay - how about bloakie?
u mean "ouk"
rotfl- im not a tree ...lool, anyways cya at the clannie DJ
MaXimus
09 Jun 2005, 21:22
I'm going away from this Sat till the next Sunday. I'll check with the guys if there's enough ppl available during the week though.
by the way - is Quadrant Six interested in this tournament? - I'll have an update to our website on the tournament schedule - and its dates this weekend! Will let you all know!
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
09 Jun 2005, 23:01
Q6 has only one person that plays UT(if i'm not mistakened), so they won't be joining us...
Just so that you know, the only Q6 person is Zero-1 & he joined Naja for our online time, but if he ever playes UT at compo's he plays under the Q6 tag, not Naja..!!
so is Jon playing at the Lan2k comp in CPT?
]H[ellboy
10 Jun 2005, 02:25
DJ - beware there are a few trouble makers here, im sure you'll soon spot them. . . .
Classic!
and who might they be?
Hey Manta - not sure if it was you who asked - but anyways - our UT Server should be back up and running now!
Thanks Dj,
And did you ever noticed, asoon as people wanto "flame" its always (did you go to school). :)
]H[ellboy
10 Jun 2005, 09:12
Thanks Dj,
And did you ever noticed, asoon as people wanto "flame" its always (did you go to school). :)
With a reply like yours, did you?
Could we try and keep this thread civil and get some information on the clan matches? There is really no need to read through 3 pages of drivel to get some kind of info. Feel free to go flame each other to death on another topic.
[B.Inc]=_sNaKe_=
10 Jun 2005, 12:36
Ok G, so whos Pam?
Hey Gamos - I actually agree with you - within the next week I would like to have somethign concrete up that everyone would agree to - and join in - so listen -- I have 7 Clans Interested in this competition - is there anyone else I have left out? Please let me know asap!
Could we try and keep this thread civil and get some information on the clan matches? There is really no need to read through 3 pages of drivel to get some kind of info. Feel free to go flame each other to death on another topic.
ye WEHRE THE F are we on that web page off yours....mmmm
huh huh ....:) <A> avatars....?
I'm going to up date the schedule tomorrow (Monday) on line - sorry Avatars weren't on it
Guys these are the entrants I have - if you are not on this list and want to be then say something please.
Murder Alliance
Helix
Neutrons
Naja
Mutha Fraga's
Comandos
Avatars
ye WEHRE THE F are we on that web page off yours....mmmm
huh huh ....:) <A> avatars....?
Guys - suggestions
1. Tournament runs a whole weekend - and we can schedule it for a wekend in the next couple of weeks
2. Each Match can be agreed time/date by the two Clans playing. results can be posted on this forum or emailed to me.
Which would you prefer?
oi ppl i got a plan can't we play like some arena clannie's or something ?on ma server?
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
13 Jun 2005, 01:34
I can't play the whole weekend & i'm sure alot of other ppls are the same... Can we rather make it a Sat thing??!!
where will this be held sorry I haven't been following
EvilCow
13 Jun 2005, 01:44
it will be held at the internet (that place near the world wide web)
DJ, I think the whole concept of 'online tourney' does not fit in with a whole weekend idea. Run it Saturday nights for a couple of weeks, or something like that. It will also be way too difficult to get all clans punctual for all their matches. It just spells disaster IMO.
I agree, add Arena to that lineup. :)
Firstly - I am feeling stupid here - but explain to me what you are talking about when you say "add Arena to that lineup" - I know I am gonna get a happy "you are stupid slap" for asking this question.
I do agree with you though - I am assuming - since Nick suddenly took interest that Team 42 want in now??? Can Team 42 confirm so I can make the final schedule.
So in light of what has been said - I reckon we do one Clan match every saturday - Camel has agreed to help with admining it on the sGs servers if I'm not mistaken.
Here is how each match will work - the Clans playing will play three matches of the same game type of the Tier they have selected to compete in. Best of three will obviously give your win to the next round. If you loose - in that tier, you will fall to the first Elimination round within that Tier. If you loose in the Elimination round - you drop out of competing for that Tier.
When all the Tiers are complete - there will be five HOF's to look at - one for each Tier - and a overal HOF - which will have been rated by the points you scored throughout all the tiers.
Here are the options for the combined HOF:
Option 1. You score 1 point for every win and no points for every loss. This will tally up regardless of the Tiers you will play.
Option 2. Placing in each Tier will be worth X amount of points. First Place 8 points, Second place 7 points, etc - we can fine Tune point scores later.
DJ, I think the whole concept of 'online tourney' does not fit in with a whole weekend idea. Run it Saturday nights for a couple of weeks, or something like that. It will also be way too difficult to get all clans punctual for all their matches. It just spells disaster IMO.
I agree, add Arena to that lineup. :)
Umm, could you draw pictures? :)
I just need some clarity on the 'three matches of the same gametype of the Tier'
The Tiers are mixed right? So do you mean that Tier1 consist of TDM, CTF and ONS (as example), will you need to play 3x TDM, 3x CTF and 3x ONS or 1x each?
Arena is a Last Man Standing type mod, much like Quake Arena. You start with full health and armor and all weapons and essentially play TDM. The trick is hat there are no shields, Ammo or health pickups and once you run out of bullets, that weapon isn't usable till the next round. Go play it on the MA server to get an idea. It is really great fun.
Sure - Gamos - I was hoping I explained right.
Tier1 will be TDM - so lets use this as an example.
MF verses ~MA~ for example - scheduled lets say tonight for fun. MF will play ~MA~ three times TDM. If ~MA~ wins all three they qualify up the Tier with 3 Points and MF no points. If they win two games, they qualify up the Tier with two points, and even though MF lost - they would get 1 point for at leasting winning one game.
If MF loses and its their first loss - each Tier ha an double elimination round (DER) - which if you go to my website www.gamemasters.co.za (http://www.gamemasters.co.za) - and click on "CLAN TOURNAMENT" on the left - click on Tier1 thereafter and you will see the DER on the right hand side. That will be your second chance to try win. If loose in the DER you fall out of competing in that Tier.
I'll update the Clan schedule online later on today.
Umm, could you draw pictures? :)
I just need some clarity on the 'three matches of the same gametype of the Tier'
The Tiers are mixed right? So do you mean that Tier1 consist of TDM, CTF and ONS (as example), will you need to play 3x TDM, 3x CTF and 3x ONS or 1x each?
Arena is a Last Man Standing type mod, much like Quake Arena. You start with full health and armor and all weapons and essentially play TDM. The trick is hat there are no shields, Ammo or health pickups and once you run out of bullets, that weapon isn't usable till the next round. Go play it on the MA server to get an idea. It is really great fun.
DJ u missing TA in that clan list of yours there. I'm sure sum1 from TA earlier said we were in.
Sorry DawEEd - remind me the full name of TA? I'll add you in.
DJ u missing TA in that clan list of yours there. I'm sure sum1 from TA earlier said we were in.
Great - I think that's 9 Clans for the tournament if Team 42 confirms they're in it!
Total Annihilation
Guys - I've updated the schedule - I will work on the "rules of the tournmanet" - like scores, etc... tomorrow. I say we get this tournament rolling from next week Saturday. I will have posted the maps for each match well in advance and hopefully put up what we can expect the Hall of Fame to look like.
If there are still Clan's out there who want to be apart of this - please message me ASAP!!!!
Schedule can be seen by going to www.gamemasters.co.za (http://www.gamemasters.co.za) - and clicking the Clan Tournament on the left margin.
The_Basilisk
14 Jun 2005, 02:24
Chances are we won't be able to make it on a regular basis, unless you can schedule all our games for Sunday afternoons.
-bsk (42)
eee gawd an online tourney
thats not good :/
yeah Saturday nights are out of the question of me. I have a meeting with a Black label at the keg usually. That usually takes priority over sitting on my computer
The_Basilisk
14 Jun 2005, 03:08
Also, I had a look at the various tiers on your website - and it seems pretty pointless to play the same brackets through all the different gametypes. I'm sure the teams would prefer a bit of variety. I don't want to play MA in both TDM and CTF.
I am sure we can accomodate a schedule for you - just a note that the team playing in the schedule is not final - its just the look an feel of the tournament - I will randomize all four tiers so that the Clans play different Clans in the different Tiers.
Also, I had a look at the various tiers on your website - and it seems pretty pointless to play the same brackets through all the different gametypes. I'm sure the teams would prefer a bit of variety. I don't want to play MA in both TDM and CTF.
When already! WHEN? :P
This long weekend (work gave us off on Friday) would have made a nice start. :)
Right guys - just a quick update - I am just wanting to recruite a few other Clans from one or two other local sites (to see if they are interested)
The tournament official start date will be the 1 July - I will have an updated schedules (randmoized for each Tier) posted on our website and I will post rules of engagement on our website and on here within the next week. Also I will post the Map selections for tier section in the Tier on out Website.
Its quite simple folks - if you see who you are playing - all you the two Clans have to do is agree on a time - I will open the forum on here for the game recruitement for the matches. In that forum time will be agree so that all spectator can know and watch - and we can post the results in there.
[N]Haja
18 Jun 2005, 11:10
yoyo,
Just checked out the site. Would it be possible to mix up the teams each clan challenges per gametype? I see Naja challenge Helix in all 4 gametypes (first round), which is a bit silly. It would be more fun if we played each gametype vs a different clan in the first round, as it makes it more fair and interesting.
Pease let me know if we can mix it up?
thanks :)
Hey Haja - as mentioned above quote - "randmoized for each Tier" - each Tier will be mixed up - so yes - the website is only a "view" of the schedule - and by tomorrow after noon - I will have a extreme randmized mix of matches for each tier. it would be pointless to keep all tiers the same!
Haja']yoyo,
Just checked out the site. Would it be possible to mix up the teams each clan challenges per gametype? I see Naja challenge Helix in all 4 gametypes (first round), which is a bit silly. It would be more fun if we played each gametype vs a different clan in the first round, as it makes it more fair and interesting.
Pease let me know if we can mix it up?
thanks :)
[N]Haja
18 Jun 2005, 11:18
*blush* thanks dude, guess my speed reading needs some more practice :)
DJ,
let me see if i got this down,
We being MA would play 42 in our first match accourding to the table in the site. When we win we would move on to <A> and so on. Do we need to advise dates [ do you organise dates ] of matches for specs or do we just take screenies.
Q1 : is there a time limit to play the match or is there a forfiet option.
Q2 : Why we always get 42 .......lol [ cos we da best, MA for the win !!!! ]
kk
Yeah you got it right - and if you loose once - you move to the right hand side of the hierachy. Loose again and you are out of that tier.
Q1 - I will post all that on here by tomorrow
Q2 - I will be randmising all the tiers - so your matches will not be the same through all the tiers
Scheduling will also be discussed - I post it tomorrow how I think it will happen.
the admin will capture screenshots and post results on here - and I will use those results to update the Tournament on our site.
DJ,
let me see if i got this down,
We being MA would play 42 in our first match accourding to the table in the site. When we win we would move on to <A> and so on. Do we need to advise dates [ do you organise dates ] of matches for specs or do we just take screenies.
Q1 : is there a time limit to play the match or is there a forfiet option.
Q2 : Why we always get 42 .......lol [ cos we da best, MA for the win !!!! ]
kk
Right guys
I've posted what I think the Clan rules should be - go to our website - click on Clan Tournament link on the left - and the Turnament article will have a link to the rules.
Also I've updated the scheduling of the Tiers - please check them all out.
Please guys - I need feed back if you are happy with them and the rules. Any objections, suggestions and additions - please let me know ASAP!
Ok - now to answer a comon question that has come up - I will open a new forum to list the current required matches tocommence when the tournament starts. The teams required to play will in that forum - agree on a time and day they will play - at the earliest convienient time for both Clans. Guys - please - the quicker you organize to play the match - the less a Clan has to wait for their next game.
Lastly - Camel has agreed to admin as best as he can when he can - but I need to know that we'll have a fair Admin for each game when he is not available - and I need to know who else can be available - or if someone can give GM temporary admin for some of the Games. The admin needs to watch the game goes fair, rules are adhered to, the correct maps are played, and the game is recorded and screenshots are made of the results, and emailed to me.
Right - also the official start date for this Tournament will be Saturday 10 July - just so that we can fine tune some of the issues (if any) and so that I can see if there are any other Clans from other local sites that wish to join up.
Lastly - I will update on my website the Maps selection by wednesday - so that you guys will have enough time to practice your maps before your matches commence.
<A>FluX.v2.0
19 Jun 2005, 15:25
Wallhacks � wall hacks are maps that are modified on the local player machine that do not coincide with the map on the server. This gives players unfair advantage of being able to camp or get items unseen to the rest of the players on the server.
Sorry bro, but you guys have this way wrong, a wall hack is a cheat where people can see through walls, basically seeing where ever the opponent is anywhere on the map, maps cannot be modified before playing, because the server will give you a map error when trying to join ANY server.
Shot dude - I'll correct that - That's how the wall hack was explained to me!
Sorry bro, but you guys have this way wrong, a wall hack is a cheat where people can see through walls, basically seeing where ever the opponent is anywhere on the map, maps cannot be modified before playing, because the server will give you a map error when trying to join ANY server.
Sorted - I even worded it exactly like you said - there are still some grammer, spelling errors, and character errors on the rules - but I'll correct those later.
Sorry bro, but you guys have this way wrong, a wall hack is a cheat where people can see through walls, basically seeing where ever the opponent is anywhere on the map, maps cannot be modified before playing, because the server will give you a map error when trying to join ANY server.
Cataphract
19 Jun 2005, 23:53
but I need to know that we'll have a fair Admin for each game when he is not available - and I need to know who else can be available
I'm around for next couple of weeks. Let me know if you need help.
Cat I sure hope your following all this :D please give us a update soon :P
DJ,
Had a look at the site looks really cool, just one concerning point.
Match dates and times, as you all know its really hard to get all the players together on the same day without due notice.
Do we need to setup the game according to the log and organise an admin.
Is the start date on the 9th sat / 10th sun.
KK
Cataphract
20 Jun 2005, 22:41
Cat I sure hope your following all this :D please give us a update soon :p
I honestly don't have the foggiest idea what's going on.
GM<Jaymac>MF
21 Jun 2005, 00:16
Forget all the talk of dates, prizes, rules etc. I'd be keen to just start the tourney soon ...
and start winning!
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
21 Jun 2005, 00:41
Forget all the talk of dates, prizes, rules etc. I'd be keen to just start the tourney soon ...
and start winning!If you think -nT-'s good you must just wait till you see what the rest of us can do mate..!! But hey seeing as you the new guy's on the block, i think it's only but fitting that we give you's a break.!!! :D
Hey Nevets - as mentioned above I will open a forum for each match - from Sunday the 10th, the two Clans will agree to the date and time they both can pitch online at an agreed server - and that an admin is available to record the game, make sure the correct maps are played and that no cheating takes place. I would recommend that spectators join to confirm the match - incase any issues are brought up.
I would have preset dates/times - but I thought that since this is a tournament - it doesn't have to happen in one day - can be like rugby - and at minimum of 1 to 3 matches happens per week - we'll finish the tourney in no time! Don't think in your mind that this will take one month - as there are over 70 Matches to place - totalling to a total of 210 games. So the tournament will pace forward as long as the Clans organise the games on this forum - I will do my best to help manage this organizing of date and time and post it.
The tourney shouldn't be rushed so that each team can have the best possible game experience.
Does that Answer your question?
DJ,
Had a look at the site looks really cool, just one concerning point.
Match dates and times, as you all know its really hard to get all the players together on the same day without due notice.
Do we need to setup the game according to the log and organise an admin.
Is the start date on the 9th sat / 10th sun.
KK
DJ,
Crystal Clear :)
Will watch the site for details.
lol - that's telling him
If you think -nT-'s good you must just wait till you see what the rest of us can do mate..!! But hey seeing as you the new guy's on the block, i think it's only but fitting that we give you's a break.!!! :D
GM<Jaymac>MF
23 Jun 2005, 22:42
If you think -nT-'s good you must just wait till you see what the rest of us can do mate..!! But hey seeing as you the new guy's on the block, i think it's only but fitting that we give you's a break.!!! :D
Respect to all Clans - the point is; I'm excited to start playing. And in any case, who says that GM/MF's gonna do all that badly?! And even if we do, there's nothing wrong with a little psyching up the competitors. I mean, somebody's gotta do the dirty work. :D
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
23 Jun 2005, 23:26
True, Ture but if you can't even beat the weakest clan on UTza then you gonna stuggle a bit!! Thats all i'm saying.!!
Please don't take offence for what i said now & what i said before!!
The_Basilisk
24 Jun 2005, 01:48
Jaymac - you probably are going to lose all your matches, but it's what you take away from those losses that'll count. Every new team goes through the learning phase - stick it out and you'll become formidable, quit and you won't ;)
-bsk
EvilCow
24 Jun 2005, 02:18
"you are a nobody until youve been ignored by a cat"
im not sure how that quote relates to this, but im pretty sure it does.
The_Basilisk
24 Jun 2005, 02:44
Btw: If you absolutely insist on having pre-set maps, at least let us know well in advance what they will be.
Jaymac - you probably are going to lose all your matches, but it's what you take away from those losses that'll count. Every new team goes through the learning phase - stick it out and you'll become formidable, quit and you won't ;)
-bsk
A positive community member U R.
Prepare to have the wrath of the forum hoar OWning'z You.
True, Ture but if you can't even beat the weakest clan on UTza then you gonna stuggle a bit!! Thats all i'm saying.!!
Please don't take offence for what i said now & what i said before!!
I think your are needing a pir8z washing.
Whitetrash i see where you coming from . I think you need to be a little more supportive of the new people here.
its not nice being shunted down with comments wich say that people dont stand a chance against leet clans.
please man, modesty isnt good.
agreement with acceptance that we all the same no matter what our skills are is the nb factor here.
lets all agree that no matter how l33t u think u r, it doesn mattter anyways.
Cause gitzZz still will p00n jooz all and I ROCk
/me starts flame war.....
BEGIN
"you are a nobody until youve been ignored by a cat"
who makes Cat god?
Im not about to bow down to im, unless he can litigate my court cases ..
Edit* how sillly is ure noobshake?
If you think -nT-'s good you must just wait till you see what the rest of us can do mate..!! But hey seeing as you the new guy's on the block, i think it's only but fitting that we give you's a break.!!! :D
HEY MR im sooo cool.....
FUCK THAT
Im reall scared of Naja as a clan now, seriosly, WTF - you guys have 70% of all the good players in online UT in ure clan.
WTf- what fun is that?
*sense the jealosy here*
FUCK- man is it even fair for any clan to evn take you guys on?
I mean *stirs* 42:: wont even face you guys.
NAJA is the most HARDCORE online clan for UT 2004 ATm
Anyone who dissagrees please post a poll.
So , what am i getting at, well absolutely nothing .
I reckon Naja (n00b team) need to play more clannies againt (noob clan) -nT-
You see, everyone needs a starting point in online gaming to get established.
me , im not about to w8 a few years to get respect--- clan n3utron as lead by chaotic Terror( i type what u want me to type) will be the NEW force to be reckoned with.
When has there last been a NEW team to challege the OLDSHCOOL UT doodz.
Beware old school clans......NEUTRON IS NEW - OUR FRESH PLAYERS WILL BE THE NEW CLAN TO BE SPANNING THE SERVERS.
laugh you might and probably will..........
as they say . . .. ... ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE AND WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF HIS NOObinezzz TERROR this clan will BE AROUND FOR GOOD.
Mark my gesuipte words.........we will Prosper.
Well, when we wanted to start a 2nd Naja team, the fallout was 7 pages of flaming so yeah...
[B.Inc]=_sNaKe_=
24 Jun 2005, 07:57
Erm, T3rror. Dude. Are you ok, ol' chap?
man is it even fair for any clan to evn take you guys on?
I mean *stirs* 42:: wont even face you guys.
NAJA is the most HARDCORE online clan for UT 2004 ATm
Anyone who dissagrees please post a poll.
We will take them on, in fact we are playing them tonight again 21:00 or so.
Hope they have their A game as we ....... oops, better not say anything :)
See u on the battlefield Naja
:pissed: lol
I think Alan needs to stop pretending to be drunk.
You think that is only alcohol induced?
Cataphract
24 Jun 2005, 09:30
At least when he's "drunk" he puts everything into one post. The content stays more or less the same....
Terror GM has almost the same view - in fact - before we play - we go in with the mind that we not the best now - but we not gonna take 5 years to become the best - I practice new things every day - and I train my oaks every tues/thurs/sat - and not just for UT and WC3 but other games too.
I mean Michael Schumaker (mind my spelling) is getting boring winning 5 years in a row - and this UT tournament I reckon will help us move up the brackets of where we stand. GM is gonna enjoy watching CLAN's fight for their spot on the HOF's.
Soon - I'm hoping GM will have a few new CLAN's pitching up too - and I am counting on it that even Team 42 and Naja's are going to have to start new practice sessions once Neutrons and GM's new teams, and who knows what other teams start popping up and making a ripple in the who's really good in UT.
I'm not saying we are the best, or trying to have a big head - but a mustard seed does grow into an enourmous tree. Us new Clan's will impress you good clans soon enough!
So dudes - Mutha Fraga's might not win our Games in this one - but I'm proud to say that when the tournament does start - we will put up a good fight. Jaymac has the right attitude - he's not letting loosing get to him - and neither do the rest of us in the same Clan.
And the Neutrons - they might not be better than some other Clans - but I think they have there minds set right on becoming good - in fact - I had a really nice game with Terror the other day - one on one joust - and honestly - if I played him two months ago - he would of kicked my ass 5-0 - but he won 5-4 - and for me that was a view of improvement - and at one stage in the game he was leading 3-0.
What I am saying is - we all getting better!
HEY MR im sooo cool.....
FUCK THAT
Im reall scared of Naja as a clan now, seriosly, WTF - you guys have 70% of all the good players in online UT in ure clan. etc...............
We don't practise. We braai, and drink beer.
I do apologize - I have had a bit much on my plate since tues and dropped the ball on the Map list - will have them up shortly!
Btw: If you absolutely insist on having pre-set maps, at least let us know well in advance what they will be.
GM<Acid>MF
24 Jun 2005, 10:28
I must say the rounds we played with |NT| team last night was great iv gota give it to |NT| you guys where really good.... as a new comer to online UT i am gona have to put in some practice sessions … Being new to this and all id like to know the skill levels of other teams …
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
24 Jun 2005, 10:49
From Weak to Strong :
-nT- -|- n00b
<A> -|- Good
~MA~ -|- Above Good
{TA} -|- Above Good
]H[ -|- Strong
::42 -|- Godlike
[N] -|- Godlike
If I've left out any clans forgive me!
Disclaimer: This is my opinion of the clans & only mine, if you do find that your clan has been unfairly judged......... Go F@#$ yourself!!! Cause if you'd taken the time to play [N]aja then i'd have a differnent opinion!!!
Stop attacking 42. Thanks.
And play us during the week.
Thanks.
You forgot MF -
MF -|- Padawans's :)
From Weak to Strong :
-nT- -|- n00b
<A> -|- Good
~MA~ -|- Above Good
{TA} -|- Above Good
]H[ -|- Strong
::42 -|- Godlike
[N] -|- Godlike
If I've left out any clans forgive me!
Disclaimer: This is my opinion of the clans & only mine, if you do find that your clan has been unfairly judged......... Go F@#$ yourself!!! Cause if you'd taken the time to play [N]aja then i'd have a differnent opinion!!!
GM<Acid>MF
24 Jun 2005, 11:06
In that fact ... I think ill quit will im not ahead .... ;)
ACID - if you quit I'll frag your ass with a alkaline pumped rocket launcher! lol!
In that fact ... I think ill quit will im not ahead .... ;)
From Weak to Strong :
-nT- -|- n00b
<A> -|- Good
~MA~ -|- Above Good
{TA} -|- Above Good
]H[ -|- Strong
::42 -|- Godlike
[N] -|- Godlike
If I've left out any clans forgive me!
Disclaimer: This is my opinion of the clans & only mine, if you do find that your clan has been unfairly judged......... Go F@#$ yourself!!! Cause if you'd taken the time to play [N]aja then i'd have a differnent opinion!!!
Above good ? WT that hurts man :(
Wait till tonight ...... GODLIKE HERE WE COME :bouncef:
Actually I would rate MA above Helix.
<A>FluX.v2.0
24 Jun 2005, 11:20
Rofl
Guys - the tournament starts soon - we can see who's better from there! lol
Actually I would rate MA above Helix.
From the last clannie that Helix played MA I would say Scrye is right. However I am sure Helix can make a strong comeback. MA is a very very strong clan indeed.
agreed (with awful hangover )
EvilCow
24 Jun 2005, 12:43
Its not about being the best anyway. Its a game.
people tend to forget that minute detail sometimes.
I've posted the Death match maps for the tier at our Web site at www.gamemasters.co.za (http://www.gamemasters.co.za) - click on Clan Tournament on the left and the article will have the relevant link. - I'll do the rest a little later.
Ok umm, those maps for the last tier(s) are crap :/ Pick 4 proper maps, and stick with them for the whole tournament.
Ok - without choosing maps from 1/16/8/4/2 - what maps would you like for the finals? EVeryone please contribute here!
Ok umm, those maps for the last tier(s) are crap :/ Pick 4 proper maps, and stick with them for the whole tournament.
Well what's the format? 4v4 ?
Its in the rules posted - the Clans playing match may choose 4vs4 up to 8vs8 - as long as the teams are balanced.
Well what's the format? 4v4 ?
IMO
Grendelkeep
Antalus/Goliath
Campgrounds
Rankin
[N]Haja
24 Jun 2005, 14:55
Grendelkeep
Goliath
Campgrounds
Rankin
Agreed Scrye, with goliath for Antulus :)
Right - I've changed the TDM Final round - remember for TDM - you choose 3 of the four maps together with your opponent or or flip a coin.
I'll post the rest of the maps during the weekend and let you all know!
Haja']Grendelkeep
Goliath
Campgrounds
Rankin
Agreed Scrye, with goliath for Antulus :)
EvilCow
24 Jun 2005, 17:11
instagib on
dude. i think instagib is a totally different form me game type. we can run a tier another time plainly for instagib.
how does everyone feel about super weapons though. on or off?
instagib on
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
24 Jun 2005, 17:32
For any other gametype i'd say off But i'd say on for CTF, why, cause it could change turn a match around within a second!
<A>BioGizzard
25 Jun 2005, 02:05
Mmmmmm
surely we should leave super weapons on for ons and ctf.
for tdm - i'd like to know how many of u want it on/off
For any other gametype i'd say off But i'd say on for CTF, why, cause it could change turn a match around within a second!
Please not in any TDM maps. In CTF and ONS I dont really care, would prefer them off.
[N]Haja
25 Jun 2005, 11:59
how does everyone feel about super weapons though. on or off?
I vote them on. They should only be off in a duel. But in TDM and others, it should be on :)
[N]Haja
25 Jun 2005, 12:03
IMHO it would be silly to turn them off. SO many tactics and such have been made with the deemer and powerups that to turn them off would be stupid. It has always been a given that they are on, so why change it now?
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
25 Jun 2005, 13:20
I second that, but i think putting them off in TDM would be fair to all who take part!!!
Why not play the league like the rest of the world and turn them off?
GM<Jaymac>MF
25 Jun 2005, 18:01
I've been away for a while so I only got to catch up on all the action now. Hence, I have a few things I'd like to deal with - and to bad if I'm a few days behind! ;-)
As far as the arguments over the best clan go. I say we play it out in the arenas and keep up to date with the HOF on the GameMasters site. Then - when you're at the top of an official HOF on that site, you can brag, because right now, we're all just basing our bold claims on some basic clannies.
From Weak to Strong :
-nT- -|- n00b
<A> -|- Good
~MA~ -|- Above Good
{TA} -|- Above Good
]H[ -|- Strong
::42 -|- Godlike
[N] -|- Godlike
Being close to the GameMasters guys, I know that they're gonna throw a really fair and democratic tourney, meaning that a win there should be big news for any clan.
That said, I gotta agree with Terror and DJ on getting the right mentality. There's a lot of good clans out there (like Naja, 42 etc.) but the noobs are coming up in a big way. I know that our clan (Mutha Fragga's) is serious about fighting their way to the top - and I expect that NT is gonna be right up there with us. Maybe not now... but some time in the near future! :-)
I'm not dissing the good, clans, coz you guys deserve all the respect you've earned - 100% But seriously, on int'l standards, we've all got a long way to go - and it's good competition like this that's gonna help train us up to the standard that'll make SA a respected UT community.
As for the maps... DJ, you know I'll go with anything you think is good for MF.
[N]Haja
25 Jun 2005, 18:06
I know that our clan (Mutha Fragga's) is serious about fighting their way to the top - and I expect that NT is gonna be right up there with us. Maybe not now... but some time in the near future! :-)
For sure dude. WHen naja first started playing UT, we were 2 mates with about as much skill as a novice bot. ANy clan could become "the champion" if you have the right skills and dedication.
Haja']For sure dude. WHen naja first started playing UT, we were 2 mates with about as much skill as a novice bot. ANy clan could become "the champion" if you have the right skills and dedication.
Damn, So this meens that KA* would not get big :P
[N]Haja
25 Jun 2005, 19:01
LOL, well, to have a clan, you do need more than 1 player :)
]E[::NameLess
25 Jun 2005, 19:13
kewl
Sure Jaymac - I think the spirit is what counts in the game. Good spirit - good games no matter if you win/loose. And GM is going to continually host tournaments to keep the HOF up to date.
I've been away for a while so I only got to catch up on all the action now. Hence, I have a few things I'd like to deal with - and to bad if I'm a few days behind! ;-)
As far as the arguments over the best clan go. I say we play it out in the arenas and keep up to date with the HOF on the GameMasters site. Then - when you're at the top of an official HOF on that site, you can brag, because right now, we're all just basing our bold claims on some basic clannies.
Being close to the GameMasters guys, I know that they're gonna throw a really fair and democratic tourney, meaning that a win there should be big news for any clan.
That said, I gotta agree with Terror and DJ on getting the right mentality. There's a lot of good clans out there (like Naja, 42 etc.) but the noobs are coming up in a big way. I know that our clan (Mutha Fragga's) is serious about fighting their way to the top - and I expect that NT is gonna be right up there with us. Maybe not now... but some time in the near future! :-)
I'm not dissing the good, clans, coz you guys deserve all the respect you've earned - 100% But seriously, on int'l standards, we've all got a long way to go - and it's good competition like this that's gonna help train us up to the standard that'll make SA a respected UT community.
As for the maps... DJ, you know I'll go with anything you think is good for MF.
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 10:08
Okay, I don't care what you do with the other gametypes, but let's at least play TDM properly. I've never quite understood what the local community has against playing standard tournament rules...
Teams: 4v4
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: Off
Fraglimit: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: Off
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
Maps: Agree for the most part with Haja and Scrye- but I reckon there should be an odd number, either 3 or 5 - makes it easier and fairer to choose a third map if needed. In order:
DM-Rankin
DM-Campgrounds2004-g1e
DM-Grendelkeep
DM-Antalus
DM-Goliath
Matches best of three, both sides pick a map, then eliminate for the third map if it's needed.
-bsk
Edit: And keep the same map list throughout the tourney - I mean, TDMs on albatross, roughinery and spirit... are you quite mad?
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 11:19
Cause if you'd taken the time to play [N]aja then i'd have a differnent opinion!!!
I should point out that we've been trying since the first week of ut2003 to get a clannie against Naja. Every date we propose is shot down. And if it isn't the date, then our settings (which conform to worldwide standards) are unacceptable! Or you'll only play 7v7 CTF! Yay!
Last time we made a 100% compromise and agreed to a saturday night with all your proposed rules. Guess what? Didn't happen!
WT - since perhaps you care more than the rest of your team, here's the standing offer:
ANY Sunday afternoon or weekday evening after the 4th of July. 4v4 TDM - standard rules.
If your boys are too afraid to get beaten by a margin akin to that of the section 8 games last year (which you will be), then by all means carry on making excuses every time we challenge you. Or at least be aware that we've made the fucking effort. The ball's in your court.
-bsk
Edit: Weekdays not including Fridays.
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
26 Jun 2005, 11:23
Couldn't have said it better myself..!!! I second what BSK said!!!
We(Naja) played a proper TDM against ~MA~ on friday(well exept the fact that ~MA~ changed the weapon stay to 'on' after about 2min's, because they were stuck at 1 & we had something like 20 at the time) & apart from Gamos killing his own team mates :D, it's was pure fun..!!!! I've always been a "Proper TDM Rules" fan.. I really think it promotes better accuracy!!
EDIT:
1st let me just make one thing clear, what i had said wasn't aimed at the ::42 clan, it was put there cause no OTHER clan(apart from MA) would challange us anymore!!
Now to answer your suggestion:
I'll put the suggestion forward & see how it turns out, I'll personaly push for the clannie but as i'm not really in a high position to make choice, i can't make it a defenite... Lets just see what happenes...
I'm so game to make it a thursday, what do you guys think??
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 11:27
WT - good to hear, now please convince your teammates.
[N]Haja
26 Jun 2005, 11:29
wow, with such a fantastic offer I will be the first one to sign up for that night of fun...not.
BUt I will see if anyone else wants to play you guys.
I play the games for the fun, like with Helix clannies, and the fantastic MA clannies. You guys seem to have the ability to take the whole fun factor out of UT.
ANyhoo, will get back to you.
PS, BS, you forget to mention all your demands for that saturday night clannie, but then again, your never wrong, so ye.................
Okay, I don't care what you do with the other gametypes, but let's at least play TDM properly. I've never quite understood what the local community has against playing standard tournament rules...
Teams: 4v4
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: Off
Fraglimit: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: Off
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
Maps: Agree for the most part with Haja and Scrye- but I reckon there should be an odd number, either 3 or 5 - makes it easier and fairer to choose a third map if needed. In order:
DM-Rankin
DM-Campgrounds2004-g1e
DM-Grendelkeep
DM-Antalus
DM-Goliath
Matches best of three, both sides pick a map, then eliminate for the third map if it's needed.
-bsk
Edit: And keep the same map list throughout the tourney - I mean, TDMs on albatross, roughinery and spirit... are you quite mad?
The_Basilisk for President!!!
Playing with these settings adds a whole new dimension to TDM its not just running around spamming there is a lot of tactics involved.
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
26 Jun 2005, 11:32
Read my preveous post, It's been edited!
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 11:39
Haja, no offense, but playing competitively is also a way to have fun. I don't enjoy randomness at all, and neither do many other people.
What demands did we make for the saturday night? The only constraint was that I could only get 5 players. Everything else we conceded to. Your excuse was that Naja couldn't make it due to exams, which we were also writing at the time. Do you want me to paste the PM you sent me?
Quite honestly, I want to play a team consisting of: Jon, Naut, Elco and WT. Whether or not you want to play has no relevance here.
Anyway, I didn't bring this up - one of your teammates did. And from the looks of things I'm wasting my time trying to organise with you, since you never seem to let them know what's going on.
So here's where I stand. Accept our challenge and we play a proper game; or decline and admit you don't have the balls to play us. It's as simple as that. Excuse the tone of this post, but the frustration is just starting to take it's toll. There are only two days out of seven when we're unavailable. You CAN make a plan.
Oh, and WT - why don't you take it upon yourself to get the players I mentioned together? I know Jon for one is dying to play us.
-bsk
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 11:42
WT, just read your edit. Should we work on Thursday the 7th of July for now? I'll check it with my team.
[N]Haja
26 Jun 2005, 11:45
I am busy organising BS. Thanks for the concern though, it is flattering.
I WILL get back to you once I have some answers, I have allready made a post on our forum.
We accept the challenge in principle, just need to get the right ppl to play now, no point in sending our weaker players against mburr, mielie, gadulf and scrye / BS, now is there?
cya
now now ,save the anger for the clanny =)
Haja']no point in sending our weaker players against mburr, mielie, gadulf and scrye / BS, now is there?
What about me?
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 12:11
Haja']no point in sending our weaker players against mburr, mielie, gadulf and scrye / BS, now is there?
Dude, you wanted to play us 7v7...
But ye, Naja organise, and I'll STFU now.
-bsk
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
26 Jun 2005, 12:34
now now ,save the anger for the clanny =)
STFU KID, keep your nose out of things you don't know or understand!!!!!
Bsk, Haja has always informed us on the clannie's you've set forward, it's a team decisition not to play, why you ask, we just make sure EVERYONES had thier say & majority rules.!!
The planning is underway, so just give us time to round up the Team we see fit to play you guys.!!!
guys guys guys - I can see there is a lot of pettiness in the organization of a fair Clannie. my opinion is - a skilled player can player in any circumstances - and great player plays even if he knows he is destined to loose.
Mutha Fraga's gladly challenge the Naga's this thursday (N3utrons - hope you don't mind miss8ng 1 game with us), saturday or next thursday - win or loose - lets have some fun.
As for the Tournament - my pc crashed - i'll update the maps and rules tomorrow when i replace my motherboard. GM will take in consideration all mentioned above and post the recommended rules for each gametype. Super Weapon will be set off for TDM only.
As for weapons stay - it will be on for all gametypes, however i would like a vote from you all of whether or not I should swith off weapons stay for TDM - as for TDM - it would make the game far more challenging.
Log me out of your machine damnit Target :P
STFU KID, keep your nose out of things you don't know or understand!!!!!
What is there to understand about stupid arguing Adults actine like Kids younger than me.. you stfu, your the one having a say in everything, not me.
The_Basilisk
26 Jun 2005, 16:39
DJ - it's your tournament and you can run it any way you like. It just strikes me as odd that you would frequently make comparisons to gaming overseas, but not conform to the internationally standard rules which have been tested and proven effective over a long period of time.
http://www.clanbase.com/rules.php?lid=1947
-bsk
Nautilian
26 Jun 2005, 17:05
Why must we conform to international standards, at the end of the day we are doing this to have more fun, bringing in the professonal side to this is just going to make it more political and just ruin it for all. I say we do it to how WE want it.
Naut
So how do YOU want it, Nautilian?
Basilisk - You are 100% right!
What GM is trying to achieve - is making sure the rules - are as fair as possible! I am looking at international rule standards (thanks for that link I didn't have that one) - as well as recognized settings internationally - and comparing it to the suggestions locally. Hopefully by wednesday - GM will have final decisions and modify the rules to these standards.
For those of you who are interested:
Internationally - GM actually is hoping to get the CPL (Cyberathletes Professional Leauge - www.thecpl.com (http://www.thecpl.com) - and who knows what other organizations) to recognize these tournaments - and I'm currently working on contacts there to take an interest in watching the progress of the tournament - and the future ones.
As we know - CPL does not visit australia or africa - because they want us to pay for them to come here - they don't believe there are really any reasons to involve Africa or Australia into the CPL - the same with Blizzard and a few other Brands that have international servers or competitions, and therefore don't invest in this country (Some one please correct me if my info is inaccurate - but this is what GM's research is concluding)
I'm not saying they are wrong - but a company like GM - will gladly start to fund the forward moving of this vision - without having to spend the $$$$'s that international interests would spend now to achieve this without knowing the success of the investment.
The bottom line is "locally" no one wants to invest because a lot of people would be in it for the money and so far those who did it for the money - made a quick buck and took a hike. So local investors (in it for the money or not) want to see a local success before investing - and international investors want to see local investors supporting a working model. GM is in it for the fun - and the vision to bring SA onto an international table in terms of gaming starting with UT, Soon WC3 and CS and moving on to other games too.
So basically Basilisk - I am fine tuning what I want the future standard of GM's rules to be - so that everyone has a fair game - even things like friendly fire are strongly being thought about at this point in time - and that we are recognized as a fair tournament host. I've already had visits internationally to our website - and emails coming through that its about time we have something happening in SA. If this tournament goes well - and we keep it going - who knows what will come from it.
If anyone wants to be apart this of vision - PM me - cause the more investment GM can get the more tournaments we will have - and hopefully - GM is aiming to not only have a strong online presence for this kind of online gaming - but to also build a platform - where once a year functions like rage will take place more often.
So the appearance of GM and its Clan MF is not just pure coincidence, or another group of friends with an idea of spamming the servers with - "look another clannie"
Quite a response from your post - but I thought it would be good to bring a vision to everyone - so that - they don't just see this tournament as a place to see how good everyone is - but to see that these tournaments hope to bring something more than just a win or a title of some sort. That it will bring an international competition to our doors - and Clan's like those here on unreal.co.za - have the oppertunity to compete.
DJ - it's your tournament and you can run it any way you like. It just strikes me as odd that you would frequently make comparisons to gaming overseas, but not conform to the internationally standard rules which have been tested and proven effective over a long period of time.
http://www.clanbase.com/rules.php?lid=1947
-bsk
GM<Jaymac>MF
26 Jun 2005, 23:27
Couldn't have said it better myself DeeJ... ;-)
:/ clannie? what the hell is going on?#$#$#$
The_Basilisk
27 Jun 2005, 05:01
Go fuck yourself Naut. You are the categorical opponent of fun in every sense of the word.
I don't know, perhaps I like those rules because THEY'RE FAIR? And THEY WORK? And... oh my god, THEY'RE FUN!
-bsk
The_Basilisk
27 Jun 2005, 05:15
Haja / WT -
I'm going on holiday for a week, leaving in roughly two hours, so I've told Mburr to sort out the organising while I'm gone. I'll be back on the 4th of July. Hopefully by then we'll have a date.
Basilisk
Teams: 4v4
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: Off
Fraglimit: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: Off
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
What about Team Damage? I assume it will be on? On what percentage, 100%?
Edit: How about some Team Arena (non international rules :) ) fun for the rest of the okes? :P
Cataphract
27 Jun 2005, 08:57
No, please no team damage, or is this a Counter-Strike effort? I admit I haven't read every single post so maybe it is.
Gamos/Cataphract - we are still contemplating whether Team Damage is going to be on or off - like with super weapons everyone can post their opinions here - which will help with making the decision.
Being on/off both have their advantages. At this point in time we looking at leaving it off - but in future switching it on.
No, please no team damage, or is this a Counter-Strike effort? I admit I haven't read every single post so maybe it is.
Keep it on if you want everyone to LG from a distace or flank and hit from the side.
Where is the skillset then, is it to miss your own guys or to beat the opposition??
My2c
GunJitsu
27 Jun 2005, 12:20
Its about time that the suckers that jump infront of me as I'm charging rockets take some damage too.
Once again I ask, is there even an international trend for TDM? Quake maybe, but UT?
With Arena I have learned to cope with it, so I am easy either way. I'll vote for 50% instead of 100% however. I feel it does bring some more skill into it, but you don't want to be severely punished when a team mate pops around the corner.
Just my 2c.
<A>BioGizzard
27 Jun 2005, 12:44
i'm with gamos...:P
team damage kills the team spamm of 1 vs 4 in battle and forces a bit more skill and less spamm, so a smaller percentage of it would be gr8... thx
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
27 Jun 2005, 13:00
but you don't want to be severely punished when a team mate pops around the corner. Thing is, you don't get punished for hitting your own teammate, he does, well....... you do loose a point, so you migh be a bit right there... All it really does is make you think twise before SPAMMING down a hall or something...
The way i see it:
ADVANTAGES :
* It makes you get in close(if you have no long rang weapons) & teaches you the ropes of close combat...
* It adds a bit of insurance to the fact that you won't find that many ppl SPAMMING flak or whatever to get a frag or 2, well unless you love killing your own teammates, which in turn you'rre going to be at the bottom of the logs, which in turn makes a person feel they don't know how to play...
* Gives you a bit more accuracy...
* It makes you approach a situation differently... e.g. If you see a persons in a close comabat situation & you have a long distance weapon, you move to get into a better position to make the shot, instead of standing still & takng the shot & having that chance of hitting your own teammate..!!!
* Teaches you the value of a TEAM GAME hence the name TDM...
* It brings variouty to the gametype, which so many of you's are bitching about & a welcome change if you ask me...!
DISADVANTAGES :
* You kill your teammate & you loose a point...
* You can't SPAM the whole time...
* You might get a bit more angry...
There are a few more points you can add to both sides but i just can't think of anything now...
I still say we give this a go & if we see it's not working then the next tourney we have(Complements of the GM fellows), we can chage it then..!!??
& leave team damage on 100%
What the great White one said! Is Arena on 100% btw?
<A>FluX.v2.0
27 Jun 2005, 13:36
I will still rather play on the MA server.
Once again I ask, is there even an international trend for TDM? Quake maybe, but UT?
Yes there most definatly is and it is fun.
I'm all for it - WT - you've put it really well there.
I think also - it will push Clan's to practice properly to achieve their place on the rankings in the HOF - I think Team Damage also has been what's trained a couple of our good players on unreal.co.za to aim well and fire at the right moment.
Unless I can have a really good reason - GM will be setting the rules for TDM to have Team Damage at 100% - if this is seen as a problem - like WT said - we will set it off on the next tournament.
Thing is, you don't get punished for hitting your own teammate, he does, well....... you do loose a point, so you migh be a bit right there... All it really does is make you think twise before SPAMMING down a hall or something...etc...etc...etc...
Gamos - I've seen many different sites recommend different settings. I think for now we are going to kinda try set it with the following standards:
TDM
Teams: Clan's playing the match may choose 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 7v7 or 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: Off
Fraglimit: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: Off
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
CTF
Teams: Clan's playing the match may choose 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 7v7 or 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: 5
Timelimit: 30
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
BR
Teams: Clan's playing the match may choose 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 7v7 or 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: 35
Timelimit: 30
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
ONS
Teams: Clan's playing the match may choose 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 7v7 or 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: 3
Timelimit: 40
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
I will finalize these by Wednesday - so comment on each is now open for final discussion.
Once again I ask, is there even an international trend for TDM? Quake maybe, but UT?
With Arena I have learned to cope with it, so I am easy either way. I'll vote for 50% instead of 100% however. I feel it does bring some more skill into it, but you don't want to be severely punished when a team mate pops around the corner.
Just my 2c.
Can I just comment on a couple of things?
Clan's playing the match may choose 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 7v7 or 8v8
So 2 teams have large enough clans to make a 16 player match.
Weapon Stay: Off
That will be very hard! Would it not be better to restrict team numbers?
Also CTF and BR matches at 30 minutes and ONS at 40? Shoo! Gonna be some loooong matches!
Also, I am assuming team damage is 100%? If so, ONS and CTF will be a nightmare. Should gametypes accomodating superweapons not have team damage off?
Just my 2c.
Gamos - I apologise I forgot to mention the Damage percentages.
TDM - 100%
CTF, BR, ONS - 25%
TDM - we can have a vote - either we limit it to 4v4 and weapon stay off - or 4v4 up to 8v8 and Weapon stay on - how is that for democrasy?
I think we should keep Team Damage on even with Super weapons - here again we can all vote?
As for the times - those are the times I thought would be fair - what time limit do think you would prefer? 20min? Given that its a tournament do you not think that those Game Types should have that little bit of more time? I watched two different international competition demos of each game type and both were set to 30min for both types - perhaps we should set it at 25min?
Ok so each person can throw a yes or no for the following:
1. Weapons stay on in TDM (If yes vote then 4v4 up 8v8 - if no - 4v4 and Weapons stay is off)
2. In BR,CTF,ONS 25% Team damage YES/NO.
Time limits for
3a. TDM - 20/25/30
3b. CTF - 20/25/30
3c. BR - 20/25/30
3d. ONS - 20/25/30
Can I just comment on a couple of things?
Clan's playing the match may choose 4v4, 5v5, 6v6 7v7 or 8v8
So 2 teams have large enough clans to make a 16 player match.
Weapon Stay: Off
That will be very hard! Would it not be better to restrict team numbers?
Also CTF and BR matches at 30 minutes and ONS at 40? Shoo! Gonna be some loooong matches!
Also, I am assuming team damage is 100%? If so, ONS and CTF will be a nightmare. Should gametypes accomodating superweapons not have team damage off?
Just my 2c.
DJ, I would hate to restrict TDM to 4vs4. Not one clan have less than 5 players. Is there no possibility to have both? 4vs4 and 5vs5 could be weaponstay off, 6vs6 and higher on?
Why don't we actually try it on a server and see how it is? I can just see in my mind's eye a TDM won with assault rifles.
25% Damage on those other gametypes gets my vote rather than 100% Once again, how is it done overseas?
As for timelimit, if 30 is the standard leave it at standard. With ONS being multiple rounds though, it will be terrible to play 3x 80 minute matches!
Edit: If I have to vote
1. Both
2. 25% Yes, Off better.
Time limits for
3a. TDM - 20
3b. CTF - 20
3c. BR - 20
3d. ONS - 20
For ONS rules I would recommend talking to Lord_Xan you will find him in the ONS ladder section. I agree turning on teamdamage here would be a nightmare.
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
27 Jun 2005, 15:44
I understand that this is your first "TOURNEMENT" but you seem to be taking it a bit far, IMHO... Don't get me wrong for first timers your doing great!!!
I'll just give my input & you say if it's fair or not..!!?
TDM
Teams: 5v5
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: Off
Fraglimit: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: Off
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On - 100% damage
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
CTF
Teams: 5v5
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On - 25%
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
BR
Teams: 5v5
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
ONS
Teams: 5v5
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: 3
Timelimit: 20 - with a heavy Core drainage
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: Off
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
I would rather have a ONS leader like Xan to coment on whats fair & whats not!!!
Compare yours vs mine & see the changes, We've had a tourney on ONS before & the changes i made there were to our tourney standards(correct me if i'm wrong Xan, Cat)... I find if you turn the Flag cap's & the score limits off you atleast give the other team a chance to mount a decent comeback, instead of having to give them a limit to what they can or can't do.. e.g. When we(Naja) played ~MA~, i saw in the one game there was a 5-4 score... We had finished the map a bit before the alocated time & who's to say that they wouldn't have made a desicive comeback if we had just let the flag cap's go & let the time run out by itself.!!! In this case i would prefere the ppl's to rely on the time to get a match victory, rather than letting them rely on a score limit(the only exception would be ONS, cause we all know how long one of those games can last... with a time limit of 20 min's i personlly experienced a 2 hour ons game..!!)
Thanks WT - you are right - this is our first Tourney - and that's why we posted it here - so that we do it right the first time - I'll compare yours and mine - and post up again - Thanks for your input WT.
I understand that this is your first "TOURNEMENT" but you seem to be taking it a bit far, IMHO... Don't get me wrong for first timers your doing great!!!
I'll just give my input & you say if it's fair or not..!!?etc...etc...etc...
TDM
Teams: 5v5
...
Weapon Stay: Off
good luck with that.
I'm with Whitey on no frag, cap limit. But then I will absolutely insist on 20 minute matches.
Here - I've compared and fine tuned the game type rules - I think this will probably work for everyone:
TDM
Teams: 4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: Off
Fraglimit: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On - 100% damage
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
CTF
Teams: 4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On - 25%
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
BR
Teams: 4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: None
Timelimit: 20
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: On
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: On - 25%
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
ONS
Teams: 4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline: On
Superweapons: On
Score: 3
Timelimit: 20 (heavy Core drainage)
Weapon Stay: On
Translocator: Off
Throw Weapons: On
DD: On
Team Damage: Off
Tourney Mutator: UtComp
How does that look?
Looks gold, but I would still like to hear other's opinions on CTF and BR team damage. Some strategies are linked to the detonation of superweapons and if that will kill your flag runner, it defeats the point.
Well - lets wait for a few opinions - and then we can discuss changing it? Fair enough?Looks gold, but I would still like to hear other's opinions on CTF and BR team damage. Some strategies are linked to the detonation of superweapons and if that will kill your flag runner, it defeats the point.
<A>Nom@n
28 Jun 2005, 08:20
TDM - weaponstay on. Don’t really care about Team damage in tdm but personally I cant see how team damage is a good match for the amount of area effect weapons UT has. The only + I can see for weaponstay off is it will stop one team all grabbing the lightning gun at the start of a match and then controlling that point for the rest of the match (eg grendelkeep). But then again some maps doesn’t even have 8 weapon spawn points, so some consideration should go into map selection when weaponstay is turned off, else half of one team may run around without a gun because of where the team spawned.
CTF/BR/ONS - weaponstay on - team damage off. like gamos says in these game types you use superweapons and big-ass tanks to control areas. TD on will nullify many of these strategies and turn it even more into TDM with a flag.
Right guys - rules have been updated on our website to:
Team Deathmatch rules and scoring
Teams:-4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline:-On
Superweapons:-Off
Fraglimit:-None
Timelimit:-20 Minutes
Weapon Stay:-On
Translocator:-Off
Throw Weapons:-On
Double Damage:- On
Team Damage:-100% Damage
Tourney Mutator:-UtComp 1.3 or 1.6
Capture the Flag rules and scoring
Teams:-4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline:-On
Superweapons:-On
Fraglimit:-None
Timelimit:-20 Minutes
Weapon Stay:-On
Translocator:-On
Throw Weapons:-On
Double Damage:-On
Team Damage:-Off
Tourney Mutator:-UtComp 1.3 or 1.6
Onslaught Rules and scoring
Teams:-4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline:-On
Superweapons:-On
Fraglimit:-3
Timelimit:-20 Minutes (With Heavy Core Drainage)
Weapon Stay:-On
Translocator:-Off
Throw Weapons:-On
Double Damage:-On
Team Damage:-Off
Tourney Mutator:-UtComp 1.3 or 1.6
Bombing Run rules and scoring
Teams:-4v4 up to 8v8
Adrenaline:-On
Superweapons:-On
Fraglimit:-None
Timelimit:-20 Minutes
Weapon Stay:-On
Translocator:-On
Throw Weapons:-On
Double Damage:-On
Team Damage:-Off
Tourney Mutator:-UtComp 1.3 or 1.6
Also - I have updated the map list - I'm not sure on the onslaught and Bombing maps selections - there'nt many maps to pick and choose - so check out and let me know if you are all ok.
Please everyone - go to www.gamemasters.co.za (http://www.gamemasters.co.za/) and check out the maplist under the news section "Clan Tournament" article.
Also - we have posted a new article on our website: Difference - Good/Better
The purpose of having weapon stay off is such that it promotes team synergy. When weapon stay is on, it becomes a mindless frag fest with no areas of control being vital, since any team can get any gun. Spamming becomes rife, and it turns into a team free-for-all for a 20 minute duration. Weapon throwing is there so that you can toss a lightning gun to your teammate that just spawned, so that he's not defenseless.
The entire purpose of having four players per team on a map is to give certain team members areas of control. It's not unheard of to have two players timing the lightning gun and the fifty shield, whilst the other two time the super shield and double damage. Otherwise you've got eight players doing nothing but attacking on three items, rather than when they should be attacking on super, double damage, fifty shield, and weapons that are paramount to winning, given the design of the map.
Weapon stay adds a dimension to TDM that each team needs to carefully consider and adjust their game for. You're supposed to be able to spawn rape in a TDM. Weapon stay on takes that dimension away somewhat.
Just my two cents.
I agree 100% Mburr, but I do feel it will be a useless excersise with anythong over 5vs5.
Mburr are you sayin that weapons stay off would be better for TDM? GM was concerned that it might be bad - i think the rest of the settings are 100% - but I think GM would like to hear everyone's 2cents on Mburr's comment - as we'll gladly adjust dependent on what is said.
The purpose of having weapon stay off is such that it pro.motes team synergy. When weapon stay is on, it becomes a mindless frag fest with no areas of control being vital, since any team can get any gun. Spamming becomes rife, and it turns into a team free-for-all for a 20 minute duration. Weapon throwing is there so that you can toss a lightning gun to your teammate that just spawned, so that he's not defenseless.
The entire purpose of having four players per team on a map is to give certain team members areas of control. It's not unheard of to have two players timing the lightning gun and the fifty shield, whilst the other two time the super shield and double damage. Otherwise you've got eight players doing nothing but attacking on three items, rather than when they should be attacking on super, double damage, fifty shield, and weapons that are paramount to winning, given the design of the map.
Weapon stay adds a dimension to TDM that each team needs to carefully consider and adjust their game for. You're supposed to be able to spawn rape in a TDM. Weapon stay on takes that dimension away somewhat.
Just my two cents.
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
29 Jun 2005, 00:15
What Mburr said was completely fair & it points to the way TDM should be played!!!
I just had a look at the maplist you guys have created..
I suggest(& i'll tell you why after this) :
TDM
Rankin - Deck17 - Grendelkeep - Campgrounds - Antalus - Goliath - Asbestos
CTF
Face Classic - Maul(nothing more than a 5v5 situation) - Grendelkeep - Bridge Of Fate - Grassyknoll - Orbital2 - Citadel
The rest i'm not that experienced at or in, so it's left to you guys to decide...
The reason why i only put down those few TDM maps was cause if you have to take Crash(or any "1on1" map) as an example, you going to have so much of a mission to make a match thats worthy of playing.. e.g. In crash i can run the map dry in under 20 secs, now put that in a "Pro"sense.. You want like Mburr mentioned a challange, in the fact that you want points to control, not to let it become one huge frag fest with ppl running around with assault rifles or shield guns the whole time waiting for a weapon to spawn & i can promise you that ppl are going to do this.!!!! Give them fixed maps, so that they can come up with thier own tactics or better tactics for a map, which in turn improves thier overall gameplay, which in turn creates a new feel for the game..
CTF, use maps that are played often, for the sole purpose of the fact that ppl know the maps.. Why put down maps that are rarely played?? I understand you're trying your utmost to make this as fun as possible but if your going to put down Maul, then you have to put down a fixed player limit, such as 5v5 or 4v4 for the whole tournement... What i'm trying to get at is the fact that you've given us a choice of either 4v4 & above, till 8v8... IMHO, make the whole tourney a fixed player amount.!!! There's nothing wrong with a clan changing players to atleast give all thier players a turn to play!!
Just my 2c
WT - GM thinks its fair - GM's concern was weather or not Clan's would deem this fair.
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
29 Jun 2005, 00:47
Read my Edit & tell me what you think!!???
<A>BioGizzard
29 Jun 2005, 08:58
tdm arena for the win :P
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