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DJRob
20 Jan 2006, 10:06
Guys - I got this off the SAIX Gaming forums - so this isn't my words - just a copy and paste from http://games.saix.net/cgi-bin/sgsbb/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=4;t=30930

Anyway - just wanted to see what everyone likes here! Lets see what everone preferes.

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the following was cut and paste from the forum above
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I have been involved in competitive mind sport for 12years, in this time I have seen a number of attempts by event organisers to create hype for the final rounds of their event for the spectators, not neciserily to improve the overall game of all the competing competitors.
In breef here are the different systems as I understand them withtheir pro's and cons (ok so I am biased).
1. Round Robin
* In a round robin tournament every one plays each other.
It is fair and equitable but is impractical with a large number of contestants and or a open entry with out limited seats tournament with regard to planing for the lenth of an event and to set start/stop times.
Works well for the calculation of equitable seedings.
Is impartial as to who plays who.
2. Double elimination
* In a double elimination tournament players/teams play in accordance with a draw and are elminated from the tournament once they lose two matches. Once again bulky if you have a open format tournament and difficult to plan if you dont have a set number of entrys.
U also lose a large numer of contestants fairly quickly, u end up having people who paid good money to compete going home only having played 2 games.
Doesnt work well for calculation of equitable seedings.
Can be manipulated in the absence of public seedings.
3. Sigle elimination
* Basically a knockout system where if u lose one match u are out of the tournament. Goes a lot quicker than the Double elimination, but half the entrants can pack up and go home after the first round.
Doesnt work well for calculation of equitable seedings.
Can be manipulated in the absence of public seedings.
4. Swiss system
* In this tournament format strenth is measured against strenth, a set number of rounds are played, no one is eliminated, first round winners play each other and first round losers play each other, this process continues untill a set number of rounds has been played.
Works well for calculation of equitable seedings.
Works well in the absence of seedings as results per round and total tournament determine next opponent.
5. A combinaton of one or more of the above..
Well the posibilities are infinate. If I am not mistaken a number of tournaments use a group Round robin followed by a single and or double elimination round, others (CPL specifically) start off with single elimination and move to next round of double elimination.
The combinations have a problem with regard to equitable seeding calculations again as everyone participating does not have the same number of rounds that they play in order to accumilate seeding points.
Any K/O system can be manipulated to suit a organisers prefred teems, basically giving the team/person a easy ride to the last round of an event.
Scrye
20 Jan 2006, 10:11
I vote we buy him a dictionary.
Gamos
20 Jan 2006, 10:23
Double Elimination is probably the easiest and most time effective. There is always a problem with an uneven number of contestants however.
gater007
20 Jan 2006, 10:30
I vote we buy him a dictionary.

yea I will send u the adress ;)

Personally I prefer the Swiss type system as it contributes to the overall developement of all gamers.
Hell who wants to go to a event pay your money (no matter how much u suck) and be knocked out in the first round, after all, u want as many happy participants as possible, not just one ore two teams/people ending up playing to the end
Terror
20 Jan 2006, 10:31
I viote ladder style.

It's a fight to the winning position and everyone gets a chance to play.
sneaky
20 Jan 2006, 11:04
I vote monkey style
Terror
20 Jan 2006, 11:32
I see alot of people are voting double elimination.

". Double elimination
* In a double elimination tournament players/teams play in accordance with a draw and are elminated from the tournament once they lose two matches. Once again bulky if you have a open format tournament and difficult to plan if you dont have a set number of entrys.
U also lose a large numer of contestants fairly quickly, u end up having people who paid good money to compete going home only having played 2 games.
Doesnt work well for calculation of equitable seedings.
Can be manipulated in the absence of public seedings."


After reading the above , why are people choosing this option ?
Gamos
20 Jan 2006, 12:07
Because you want the best player the quickest, not the paid player the longest. Have an open LAN for those falling out.
gater007
20 Jan 2006, 12:32
I tend to disagree with the single and double elimination tournament formats (then I am biased), but then I disagree with everything that doesnt agree with me ;)
The aim of a tournament is to allow persons to compete in a fair and equitable manner, and to as an eventuality have a person/team apointed as the best of the tournament (ok the winner), your tournament format must fit into your overall aims that you have (in my opinion it should be growing a strong competitive comunity).
The "double elimination" system deprives newcomers of valuable tournament experience wich in the long run improves the overall standard of all competitors.
Personally I think Single and double elimination formats were invented by lazy tournament administrators, but ag ja thats just me ;)
Gamos
20 Jan 2006, 12:50
Lazy administrators or time constraints? Round Robin is your best option, but even with just 16 players takes a long time to finish.

I would say an online tourney would benefit from either Round Robin or a Ladder type system, but at a LAN where at most you have a 2 days weekend, you are gonna run into trouble time wise. Double elimination is a mix between the speed of Single elimination, and reliability of Round Robin.

Also, double elimination isn't used for gaming exclusively but many other sports.
Acid Burn
20 Jan 2006, 13:33
The time constraint is always a factor as well as location if it is held in JHB then capetonians would most likely have a problem to get there and vice versa, I feel that an online tournament is most benificial and can be played from any where in the country.

With regards to the system of play I quiet liked the SWISS system but this could drag on for to long and people could get gatvoll as per susual. The double damage system is much less time consumeing but offers at times an unfair advantage towards some players.

I am mixed up between the 2.

Why dont we do a head count and see how many people would be interested in playing in a tournament then we would know which system would be most suited.

Acid
________
George Ryton (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/George_Ryton)
Purple_H@ze
20 Jan 2006, 13:59
Ok either what i am about to say is round robin, or it is a variation thereof. You take 50 entrants, 10 groups, 5 per group. Put all the better players in the same groups, this is the only way to eliminate Syzgy playing naut in the first round. Everyone has a game, the top player in each group goes through. Once that is done you once again try and match skills intermediate vs better, better vs best... then you eliminate them one by one... you will only have 10 players in this stage so it's easy. My calculations would go as such:

Group A:
1v2
1v3
1v4
1v5
2v3
2v4
2v5
3v4
3v5
4v5
(10 mins each)
1.5 hours per group
11.5 hours for all groups / 3 servers = just under 4 hours in total. Group stage decided(extra hour included for admin screw ups)
lunch break
Elim Round:
avb(10 mins)
cvd(10 mins)
evf(10 mins)
gvh(10 mins)
ivj(10 mins)
50 mins for elim round / 3 servers roughly 20 mins to decide this.
5 players left and they go into one "winners" group.
break
1.5 hours round robin as per group stage.

Most games won = winner

entire comp runs in one day, everyone plays, fair result.
GunJitsu
20 Jan 2006, 19:10
Purple_Haze, have you ever been to a tournament? Matches are 3 rounds of 20 minutes each and you totally forgot about setup and warm-up time (from the comps I've seen this can take 20 mins alone). People like the CPL have been doing this for a very long time and the double elimination format has proved to be the most successful of the lot.
gizzlo
21 Jan 2006, 03:00
Ladder Tournament (Climb your way up) i voted that
Gamma Ray
21 Jan 2006, 03:15
Well i just voted swiz type system because it sounds the coolest!!!

HAHA
Scrye
21 Jan 2006, 08:27
Purple_Haze, have you ever been to a tournament? Matches are 3 rounds of 20 minutes each and you totally forgot about setup and warm-up time (from the comps I've seen this can take 20 mins alone). People like the CPL have been doing this for a very long time and the double elimination format has proved to be the most successful of the lot.

He was annihilated at ESWC the first round, so I think he's trying to figure out some way for the noobs to play the whole tourney.
Wh1tE_Tr4sH
21 Jan 2006, 11:31
Hehehe, there's only one way i can see a n00b actually getting far in a tourney & thats practise! Get good before you join a tourney or you stand no chance, ask me i know... i went to the 2004 WCG(i'm sure it was this one) just to get thrown out of the tourney by 2 losses & no wins. I went up against K4-Vector or was it K4-KrAuzeR, & [N]Rooster i think, i can't remember, it went by so fast! :P But my point is that you don't go to a comp event expecting to kick as when all you've done is kicked some godlike bots ass just just. Play online for a few months(minimum 6 IMO) & attend lans & then go test your skills at a compo!

A double Elim for me.
Ragnarok
21 Jan 2006, 15:41
Divide everyone into groups of say 5, and then play FFA. All 1st place finishers play then play in same group, same for players 2nd 3rd etc. Then you have the rankings. Head of to double elimination.
Gamos
21 Jan 2006, 16:10
FFA is a vastly different game than Dueling.
Ragnarok
21 Jan 2006, 17:53
Yeah, but its only to get some form of ranking which is important for dubble elimination